The Gaming Den

ckafrica wrote:I'm guessing regular reality chats with the boy will be in order and telling him what my daddy told me "Son, your mother has lots of crazy ideas and will want you to do a bunch of crazy shit; most of the time its just not worth the fight compared to the amount of effort required to placate her."

Doesn't this undermine your wife/mother's credibility?

So? O.o
Fathers and Sons. Boys will be Boys.

If she wanted credibility, she shouldn't have been religious.

Stahlseele wrote:So? O.o
Fathers and Sons. Boys will be Boys.

Not that I'm saying it will necessarily apply; I'm just speaking from what I've seen in other families, but...

Where one parent tells the kid(s) that the other parent is just sort of nuts and to do what s/he says to placate them, the kids have a tendency to extrapolate that attitude to areas that have nothing to do with what the parent is crazy about, and/or not stop to think critically about what [either of] their parents ask them to do.

In short, it's demeaning, patronizing, thoughtless, and undercuts parental authority.

Maj wrote:

ckafrica wrote:I'm guessing regular reality chats with the boy will be in order and telling him what my daddy told me "Son, your mother has lots of crazy ideas and will want you to do a bunch of crazy shit; most of the time its just not worth the fight compared to the amount of effort required to placate her."

Doesn't this undermine your wife/mother's credibility?

How is the situation as presented not undermining his? It's not like many religious groups shy away from denouncing unbelievers from the pulpit.

Maj wrote:In short, it's demeaning, patronizing, thoughtless, and undercuts parental authority.

As opposed to religion, which is demeaning, patronizing, thoughtless, and promotes parental authority?

We get it, you think that people should tell their kids to obey them no matter what. Some people don't think that. Some people think that their kids should only obey sensible commands.

violence in the media wrote:How is the situation as presented not undermining his? It's not like many religious groups shy away from denouncing unbelievers from the pulpit.

Her perspective wasn't discussed, so any assumption of attitude on her part is precisely that. But certainly parents don't undermine each other just because there's a difference of opinion. It's how you approach that difference that's significant.

Telling your child that their other parent is a little crazy and to just go with it because it will prevent a fight discourages questions like "Why do you believe X?" The reply becomes an automatic "Because she's crazy/insane/stupid/mentally incapacitated/whatever and will get mad if you talk about this subject." It discourages critical thinking on both sides of the equation and encourages the child to just dismiss what they don't understand.

If the idea of religion actually is that contentious, then the two parents should sit down together and figure out how they're going to approach the issue before it pits them against each other with their child in the middle.

Maj wrote:

ckafrica wrote:I'm guessing regular reality chats with the boy will be in order and telling him what my daddy told me "Son, your mother has lots of crazy ideas and will want you to do a bunch of crazy shit; most of the time its just not worth the fight compared to the amount of effort required to placate her."

Doesn't this undermine your wife/mother's credibility?

Well I never thought it undermined my mother nor make me love her any less, it simply verified for me that the sundry of annoying things (religious and non) that I had railed against constantly as contradictions to logic were not mine alone. My dad is ten times more patient and thoughtful than I am (and certainly was in my teens when he told me this in a sanitized version) as well as an extremely loyal husband in one of the most loving marriages I've ever witnessed, and he had reached the same conclusion on a number of issues it was simply best to suck it up an accept it rather than make an issue of something. It is probably why my parents basically never argued about anything (and possibly also part of why my dad most often got his way out of those few arguments that did crop up).

Now I unfortunately did not manage to inherit my dad's patience but I do try to apply what he said to my marriage and have benefited from it, even if it is all too often applied in the hindsight of an argument in the form of burying a hatchet that I don't feel I should have to bury but can't see the advantage of keeping the fight going outweighing the reward of peace.

Now I truly believe that most men think women are crazy (and assume vice versa) on some issues and that being aware of that fact is of benefit to people. I'm sure my son will think I'm crazy sometimes and will probably suggest he follow the same advice concerning me.

I will also try my fathers approach of patiently explaining exactly why whatever is important and needs to be/be done despite whatever feeling us kids my have had regarding it. My sister has in fact voiced the opinion that she had sometimes wished he would have simply given us a smack and sent us to our room rather than a 30 minute lecture that clearly (and correctly) illustrated why we had been a bad, and while in some ways I agree I've never forgotten my dad's lectures while I can hardly remember what I might have done to get sent to my room by my mom.

Re: Credibility.

Religious people are fundamentally insane (in the way that mobs are, rather than the way that individuals are). They believe in something despite all evidence to the contrary, and continue with endless ritualised behaviours that have no effect because of that belief. Most of them know it isn't true, but "believe" it anyway.

Sports fans are exactly the same. The cheering does nothing, sports results are indistinguishable from weighted random number generators. Stock market tipsters likewise, gamblers, drunks. People love attributing meaning to random noise to try and get it to repeat, and think that if something went wrong ten times in a row that it must be about to get better. If you pray for something and it doesn't happen, pray harder, pray longer! Crazy.


People in general are pretty well fucked up. One should respect them and try to listen carefully to what they're talking about with you anyway, because that's a skill that'll totally get you laid, which is what it's all about.

Maj wrote:stuff

You know, I was going to argue with you. But, nevermind.

ckafrica wrote:Now I truly believe that most men think women are crazy (and assume vice versa) on some issues and that being aware of that fact is of benefit to people. I'm sure my son will think I'm crazy sometimes and will probably suggest he follow the same advice concerning me.

I think this is more that people who live with someone long enough tend to think of the other as crazy. All that extra exposure, sharing of ideas, and sharing the same bathroom tends to have that effect, given enough time.

ckafrica: Thank you. Your post gave a much better picture - that's why I asked.



violence: Then why post?

Maj wrote: violence: Then why post?

Because he wanted had nothing to say, but didn't want to stop arguing? Thats my guess.

RobbyPants wrote:

ckafrica wrote:Now I truly believe that most men think women are crazy (and assume vice versa) on some issues and that being aware of that fact is of benefit to people. I'm sure my son will think I'm crazy sometimes and will probably suggest he follow the same advice concerning me.

I think this is more that people who live with someone long enough tend to think of the other as crazy. All that extra exposure, sharing of ideas, and sharing the same bathroom tends to have that effect, given enough time.

I'd agree with you in the sense that better person, the longer you tend to need to know them to find their crazy. Living with any of my friends has exposed their "holy shit you think that's okay" insanity traits.

But I think there are a trend of traits that manifest mostly in women that I think most men would agree are insane. And undoubtedly women find common traits about men insane too

Everyone has their own unique kind of crazy.

ckafrica wrote: But I think there are a trend of traits that manifest mostly in women that I think most men would agree are insane. And undoubtedly women find common traits about men insane too

I'm gonna have to ask you to explain that one. Because I probably can't agree, but don't know for sure until you actually list some of these traits.

Insane things women do: Stay mad over petty shit for decades

Insane things men do: Think that being nice to a woman gets you dome

I could list more, I'm sure.

Ted the Flayer wrote:Insane things women do: Stay mad over petty shit for decades

Insane things men do: Think that being nice to a woman gets you dome

I could list more, I'm sure.

That...was a joke, right?

PoliteNewb wrote:

Ted the Flayer wrote:Insane things women do: Stay mad over petty shit for decades

Insane things men do: Think that being nice to a woman gets you dome

I could list more, I'm sure.

That...was a joke, right?

You don't get no dome bein' nice to no one. Hemispheres don't grow on trees. You gotta go to... like, a mosque or somethin'.

PoliteNewb wrote:

Ted the Flayer wrote:Insane things women do: Stay mad over petty shit for decades

Insane things men do: Think that being nice to a woman gets you dome

I could list more, I'm sure.

That...was a joke, right?

Maybe it's just the guys and gals I know, because I honestly don't know everyone. But the ladies I know don't accept apologies and just stay mad at stuff that seems petty to me, and I know a lot of whiny guys that complain that women won't sex them because they're nice to them. I might just hang out with scummy people.

The male thing makes plenty of sense culturally. Our culture is stuffed to the gills of stories where the nice guy gets the girl in the end. That's a nice story and all, but it also makes a lot of guys feel like they are entitled to sex with a girl so long as they are nice enough to them.

Yeah, I learned that the hard way. Made me aware of a lot of the shit women have to live through everyday. Grew a bit from it.

Chamomile wrote:The male thing makes plenty of sense culturally. Our culture is stuffed to the gills of stories where the nice guy gets the girl in the end. That's a nice story and all, but it also makes a lot of guys douchebags feel like they are entitled to sex with a girl so long as they are nice enough to them.

Fixed that for you.
I am not denying that this behavior seems to occur more in men than in women, and that's definitely a cultural thing. But I wouldn't call it "a way that men are insane", because it is not a trait of most (or even necessarily a lot of) men.

As for the "women hold grudges over petty" thing, that is just bullshit. I know lots of people who hold grudges, and they are relatively even along gender lines. If there is a gender disparity, it's that men are more likely to think that stuff women are upset about is "petty", while stuff men are upset about is "SERIOUS BUSINESS".

And yeah, Ted, I think you do hang out with some shitty people. I don't even hang out with guys who whine that chicks won't fuck them just because they're nice. Because it displays a mind-blowing degree of narcissism.